diff --git a/sig-economics/README.md b/sig-economics/README.md index c092d6fb..6797277a 100644 --- a/sig-economics/README.md +++ b/sig-economics/README.md @@ -16,7 +16,7 @@ Meetings happen every [First Wednesday of the Month](https://calendar.google.com | #2 | Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](meetings/002-2023-03-01.md) | [Link](meetings/002-2023-03-01.md#transcript) | [Link](https://vuyt47n5ybxp7xreixfqbigow2sl46sfhjtzbvpr4alcorbnimxa.arweave.net/rTE-fb3Abv_eJEXLAKDOtqS-ekU6Z5DV8eAWJ0QtQy4) | #3 | Wednesday, April 5, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](meetings/003-2023-04-05.md) | [Link](meetings/003-2023-04-05.md#transcript) | [Link](https://3vgsbypnydwrpxofcbsnlhgzej5n3kwevcnd5donrln33vdhbgvq.arweave.net/3U0g4e3A7RfdxRBk1ZzZInrdqsSomj6NzYrbvdRnCas) | #4 | Wednesday, May 3, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](meetings/004-2023-05-03.md) | [Link](meetings/004-2023-05-03.md#transcript) | [Link](https://hem6lyfjoxtivkxsect54uk3bghvymqqaqdne3vhpikd5tm3zoua.arweave.net/ORnl4Kl15oqq8iCn3lFbCY9cMhAEBtJup3oUPs2by6g) - +| #5 | Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](meetings/005-2023-06-07.md) | [Link](meetings/005-2023-06-07.md#transcript) | [Link](https://y4hkhdbthqe7x3vfq3ixuqy4uq4wysrtxetuezbkomacwezpqjgq.arweave.net/xw6jjDM8CfvupYbRekMcpDlsSjO5J0JkKnMAKxMvgk0) ## Leadership diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/005-2023-06-07.md b/sig-economics/meetings/005-2023-06-07.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fb9d52f5 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/005-2023-06-07.md @@ -0,0 +1,304 @@ +--- +title: "Economics SIG Meeting #5" +key: "sig-economics-meeting-5" +date: 2023-06-07T18:00:00Z +contributors: + +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- Andrew Mello +- Boz Menzalji +- Cheng Wang +- Greg Osuri +- Robert Del Rey +- Robert Koschig +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Hewitson +- Tango Tango +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Horn + +--- + +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #5 + +## Agenda + +* Updates from Greg & Cheng regarding [Stable Payments](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/stable-payments-and-take-rate.md) +* Open up to community for ideas or concerns + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://y4hkhdbthqe7x3vfq3ixuqy4uq4wysrtxetuezbkomacwezpqjgq.arweave.net/xw6jjDM8CfvupYbRekMcpDlsSjO5J0JkKnMAKxMvgk0) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants + +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- Andrew Mello +- Boz Menzalji +- Cheng Wang +- Greg Osuri +- Robert Del Rey +- Robert Koschig +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Hewitson +- Tango Tango +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Horn + +## Notes + +Greg opened up conversation by calling out that stable payments is complete and currently in Testnet. This should be included in the upcoming Maninnet upgrade alongside the addition of GPU marketplace. He also pointed out that the biggest thing those that join in on the calls can do to help the community at large is to help educate those on what it actually means. There is a difference between stable payments on the network and using credit cards or fiat to pay. The upgrade will allow for USDC initially to be used but any payments by credit card or fiat would have to happen at the client level (ie, Console, Cloudmos, Spheron, Fleek). + +After a few community questions, Cheng then took over to briefly discuss Incentive Distribution Pool (IDP) and Sub-accounts. AKT 2.0 is a large undertaking and these incremental steps are necessary to getting there. + +### Noteable Questions (Paraphrased) + +- Question (Hewi): Regarding stable payments, the code is complete but there may be some required work for UX improvements. Can you go into that more? + - Answer (Greg): Right now the denominations for currencies are not human readable so clients will have to use some sort of mapping to address this. It’s not critical and shouldn’t be an issue to resolve. + +- Question (Andrew): I get a lot of DM’s about people wanting to have AKT integrated into their platforms. Are we seeking partnerships of these kinds or do we not need it? + - Answer (Greg): AKT is permissionless and the codebase is open so anyone is open to integrate. If people want to integrate they are more than welcome to. + - Follow up (Hewi): One thing to note is that some projects ask for thousands of dollars to be integrated, despite being the ones requesting integration. Unless the project is aligned with the long term goals of progressing the development and use of decentralized cloud resources, we should take a hard look at what the offer is and how it benefits us. + + +- Question (Andrew): Regarding CoinMarketCap, some of the info is incorrect on their for AKT? + - Follow up Answer (Hewi): We have focused more on Coingecko for AKT stats, but there are request forms from CoinMarketCap to make sure they getting the right info. The process may be a bit manual and lengthy though. + + +- Question (Andrew): Is there a revenue report of Akash Network for Q3 2023? + - Answer (Greg): Check out [Web3Index](https://web3index.org/) + + +### Action Items + +All are welcome to contribute! Anyone who wants to contribute please visit sig-economics in the [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/akash) + +## Transcript + +This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created. + +Scott Hewitson: GM everybody. Today we have, I believe the fifth installment of SIG economics. Fourth or fifth. + +Scott Hewitson: No, yeah, don't I know. Of. Focus from the. Name on GPU Testnet and GPU things. We did in the past. We talked last last month, we talked about take rate and Payments. I know a little bit of work has gone into that. So with that, we can you can talk about that a little bit and then Anyone has any questions or wants to open it up to anything? We can kind of go through them there? So, with that Greg or Cheng, do you guys want to talk any, any progress on from the from that standpoint? + +Greg Osuri: Yeah, the stable payments is a gun. Implementation. It's currently part of the Testnet. And it should be part of the upcoming main of the GP minute. Along with that. It taken, come as well as implemented essentially. Not distributed yet, but implemented. in the sense of portion of the hosting fees, Paid both in Akt as well as other currencies. Primarily usdc will be collected in a pool that will be distributed according to the incentives that were proposed in the Akk tool paper. So yes, that's a big step of the Akt 2.0 already implemented. So great progress, I'm super excited for that. + +Scott Hewitson: That's awesome. Is there any? I mean, I guess it's just kind of wait until may not upgrade and then Is there anything that the community needs to do? Is there anything that we can do to help support? + +Cheng Wang: yeah, just + +Greg Osuri: Yeah, there's a lot of confusion in the telegram chats and twitter's that I'm noticing about akitude.or and implementation so it'll really be helpful. If community can spread the word answer questions. When people ask, when aka teacher.o it is a the two big features which is the Stable payments as well as take income are implemented. Part of this upcoming mainnet, main at six release along, with GPU. So Spread the word I think would be a great. Great help. Cheng. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, and definitely worth mentioning that this is by no means the end of stable payment and take rights. It's not like, Hey, we've done it. It's all done. There's gonna be a lot of additional fallout work that will be required additional purities. I'll be submitted in discussions, etc, right usdc. And this particular implementation is one version of Usdc, right? It's osmosis is you as the C currently and as noble, it's spun up, right? Native USC, currencies etc. Will additional currencies can always be added via governance like via like a brand change. Similar to how, you know, changing say inflation or something like that, right? So all those things can be changed addition and one of the primers they can be changed. Going forward will be the take rates as well. + +Greg Osuri: Just be clear. No code changes required anymore to support all + +Cheng Wang: No, no code changes, so no chain upgrades, no code changes. All future changes will only be governance,… + +Greg Osuri: correct. + +Cheng Wang: like param changes. + +Greg Osuri: So, in case in the future we want to add usdt. + +Cheng Wang: That's right. + +Greg Osuri: If USD it comes to cosmos, we will be able to make a governance proposal to update the parameters and set it take rate for you as needs dt. So there is no additional work in terms of code, but there are opportunities in the future to add new currencies, just want to be clear, right? Change,… + +Cheng Wang: Well, put well put exactly 100%… + +Greg Osuri: are we + +Cheng Wang: although the the work, I suppose bifurcate that statement a little bit gray, call out, is on the ux side of things, right, to implementing it into a workflows and, and everything like that. And where it goes right in terms of cloud, most recent console versus here, all these kind of things, right? How it's integrated, how it's used the way, it's leverage how it surfaced to people on either side of right for tenants as well as providers. Those are some nuances of course that This this particular setup in addition to, you know, everything that the community can help with will be will be super well helpful. + +Greg Osuri: It brings me to another point that was confusion about Fiat payments and stable currencies. To be very clear, Akash network protocol supports. Multiple currencies moving forward, which happened to include stable payments. It does not at a protocol level, implement credit cards. Credit card functionality or any fiat. Interaction? Functionality is implemented on the client side. What that means is clients like Console Cloudmas Spare on and FLEEK. Each of them will have their own implementation on how they seeing fit to onboard FIAT or ON-RAMPHERE. so, because credit card, Payments require trade relationship and banking relationship either with stripe or any other banks. + +00:05:00 + +Greg Osuri: That relationships are custodial in nature. So, any implementation for credit cards will be determined by the +company building that capability and only that portion because the portion requires custody, the clients will determine whether they're going to be non-custodial, fully custodial or a hybrid approach there. And, in case of console, I can guarantee you will always be on custodial with an option to use a credit card in case you need to of course, if you're using credit card, that is a lightweight cave. I see or some forth of some sort. So but only that feature will be custodian major, for obvious reasons. I want to clear that out very, very clearly because there were questions in the telegram In fact. + +Greg Osuri: Statements saying that. Hey, if a car supports VR will that become will that make it centralized or custodial. So just one of you very, very clear Fiat is not at a protocol level. Only stable payments are at a protocol level. Fiat is on the client side, + +Scott Hewitson: Awesome. Thanks for that clarification. Actually, I have one quick question kind. To the chain you were talking about UX. So everything is like code, it sounds like code complete for stable payments and take rate. for the Eyesight or whatever. It sounds like there might be some Hurdles to get through to help implement. Is there anything that anyone in this group? And the greater community can start working on. Now, to kind of help those efforts in parallel, or is there something like we can,… + +Greg Osuri: Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: you can provide that might allow someone to start. Today or tomorrow or sooner than later, I guess. + +Greg Osuri: So the UX improvements Cheng was talking about our challenges is because so far Akashomic supported a single currency. So, when you Define the SDL file. Describe the Deployment, You basically say how much Akt you want in that in that field? Simple. But now, since we have multiple currencies and the way currencies are represented in Cosmos and IBC, essentially is in a long hexadecimal string, and non-human readable hexadecimal strain. Now you're required to, which is unique in nature for, for obvious reasons. + +Cheng Wang: Up. + +Greg Osuri: Now, the SDL builder is required to know what that Hexadecimal string and include that as a denomination in the SDL file. Which obviously, Human readable and it is a little challenging. To. All that. Lines are required to implement the mapping so that users can simply specify usdcr or bitcoin or whatever. + +Greg Osuri: And that could be translated into hexadecimal string. Those improvements are currently being worked out in console pretty sure cloud moss considering their their You know speed so far will have implementation in every client will have implementation Accordingly to make this simple. We all have other ideas to do an on-chain mapping for the hexadecimal, identifier to the denomination in English language in Unicode. Essentially, that is a proposal that I want to make eventually but that's just a additional user experience benefit at a protocol level or improvement protocol level. That could that is not critical but clients should be able to address the complexity for user experience. + +Scott Hewitson: Okay, thanks for that. + +Greg Osuri: In there were some telegram chats. Some people had questions. Any questions. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, go ahead. Andrew. + +00:10:00 + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, I have two questions. So I've got the bunch of proposals in DM From that from some like e-commerce Web suite, Web 3 projects that want to integrate the Akt token into their platform, like Offer us to integrate it talking to their platform in order to increase the security. So the question is, Do we like, are we seeking this kind of partnerships or integrations for Zach, or like? Right? Or we don't need it at all. + +Greg Osuri: So Akt is permissionless open source. Anyone that want to implement Akt in the decentralized? Application is completely free to do so they do not require artist our assistance or our permission So I want to be make that very clear. So there are projects like could you kojira could you right? Because you Is that he? + +Greg Osuri: That. Have so many products under them. Of the products implemented at a Kkt. I think for akd, lending or borrowing, or a car, + +Greg Osuri: and so we, you know, we we're completely, you know, they are if they find value in Akt and I don't see a reason why we should install them. Are we actively seeking partnerships of collaboration depending on what the use cases. We're always actively seeking collaborating with other projects. I mean, that's the whole premise of doing a decentralized and open network, right? But that collaboration has to survey bigger purpose or a vision and our mission. We're not going to be interested in collaborating with projects that aren't going to be a distraction, right? You don't need enough fancy like Nft. I mean, I won't call you Nft and if he has different use cases, but I would say like they're not + +Greg Osuri: You know, they're lots of lots of. Like I just got an email from this project called Unicorn or Unicorn, Apparently, the group 5000% and they have $6,000 liquidity. In one of the Texas. they want to swap Akt to to their coin. In one collaboration, Obviously, we are interested in private like that may get these almost in a daily basis. I, I don't generally encourage projects that want partnership before code, if they want to partner or they want to collaborate show me the code, right? Do some implementation, do a demo as to what you think the collaboration would look like and give me show me a demo and be more interested personally and overclock labs we want to Working with them, but they're free to do whatever they want with Akt is no one stopping them. + +Scott Hewitson: Then Andrew one thing. I'll add to that, too, because I know there's been some some people have put into discussions and and github like for like wallets or whatever you know many times like a wallet will be looking to add a bunch of coins so they'll you know they'll say Hey we'll integrate with you guys. If you pay us 10 grand when it's like all right maybe it's a mobile wallet or this and they, you know, they tell users, you know, I think the big thing kind of what was Greg was saying, but it's like, is it, is it helping progress the use of You know, cloud computing research or distributed cloud computing resources. You're not really deploying much from your phone. So, you know, when it when it's a partnership that kind of + +Scott Hewitson: Fits to what we're doing. I think it's more useful, but when it's just some random wallet, or some random whatever that's just looking to make money based on an integration. It's like, Well, you free to integrate if you want but you know, we don't need to pay to integrate to get exposure. + +Scott Hewitson: That's kind of how I feel. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: We got it. Thanks. + +Cheng Wang: We'll put. + +Scott Hewitson: Right on. Does anyone else have any general questions? Any can be anything token related economics, Rel, Explorers floors open. Yeah, Andrew + +Andrew Gnatyuk: So yeah, one more question. So we still have on our coin market cap page, right? We still have the contracts on polygon and ethereum. How do we like I know that there are no liquidity there basically. Yeah but so the question was if like this contracts have been like published in our talking page on quite market cap via the Overclock team, right? So can we just remove it or should we tell people not to use them? + +Greg Osuri: We'll reach out to them again but traditionally I think I reached out to them sometime back. We have a group with them overclock labs in them I I requested them to update the token economics with the, with the URL for is broken, right? The market cap, the the circularing supply is wrong on coin market cap. And I send them URL and they sent me back with this. Check gigantic document. I'm supposed to fill out that you know, is impossible for Going to fill out. So, and they have a lot of bure. Having internally for them to move forward. They're not like I could find Gecko. It's a very, very fast. so, I don't know, like considering or historic, like, You know. + +00:15:00 + +Greg Osuri: What do you call? Spirit which they move. I don't know if there's going to be any benefit in reaching out to them but those contracts are not deployed by Overclock labs. I don't know who deployed those contracts or polygon and ethereum. Overclock labs did not. Put any much effort into. Doing a ethereum pair ERC for repair. So, you know, Cloud Market. App is notoriously inaccurate for a car network. Information. + +Greg Osuri: We'll see what we can do, if we can reach out to them, but But, you know, I know it's not an answer but it is what we have. + +Scott Hewitson: Andrew, I'll take a note to this to dig deeper per coin back coin market cap because I know some you're either a coin gecko person or a coin market cap person. I used to be a coin market cap person. Now I'm going, get go person so I totally understand that. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: yep, I'm saying + +Scott Hewitson: Okay. Anyone anyone else have anything that they any burning questions, anything they want to add? + +Cheng Wang: Well, if nothing, there are a couple of forward looking items, like I mentioned the, the work, and on the client +side and things like that, that Greg is ready, talked, about quite eloquently. In addition to that there are, of course, Akt 2.0, like, I mentioned, is a gigantic undertaking, right? And the components of which + +Cheng Wang: Two linch pins of it. As far as take grade and stable payments. First version of both will be going live with the next mainnet upgrade. The other things of course are still not necessarily as important but still a part of the Akt 2.0 vision and that one of them is up for discussion. I know it's not necessarily as sexy or as cool, but the creation of the sub accounts, right? For the IDP and then in addition to all those other components under under, which just kind of managed the token, instead of having everything being cobbled together in one gigantic community pool and having to parse that out for this. That and the other is to have a few more pools, more, a little bit more well-defined and have kind of operating parameters around each. So I will link that in just a second. As far as discussion goes, but that will probably be. I don't know if it'll be the next one but it's simply the one currently up for this question at the moment. So please chime in + +Cheng Wang: 14 will continue to work on priorities, that will make sense in terms of pushing Akt 2.0. Further just yeah, just continuing to push that and develop that + +Scott Hewitson: Sounds good. Alrighty, well I think I mean I don't We don't need to stay too much longer. I will say If anyone,… + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: you know, it sounds like, you know, a big, a big thing for the community and telegram and other part is just kind of education on Akt 2.0 right now. So, if you know, if anyone in this room or listening to this, as you're hearing discussions, just point people to the Github point people to the prds to, you know, it's, it's a big undertaking and we're doing it in chunks. So, you know, it's not just this one swoop and it's done. So I think education is kind of key right now and that might, you know, dispel some food or, you know, there's up, there's fun for everything. But, you know, That. A lot. So, Yeah, go ahead. Robert + +Robert Koschig: Yeah, on this note, I'm also tried to catch up. It goes on with 2.0 and as I am researching, various infrastructure or networks and you the discord was off and the history of the discord, there was quite some good links in there. It will this be up at one point soon. Like, what's, what's the plan there? Sorry that it's not a economics question, but + +Greg Osuri: Yeah, I don't know if you've been following closely but I discard was hacked. + +Robert Koschig: Yeah, exactly. + +Greg Osuri: Like last. Security and… + +Robert Koschig: That's what I saw. + +Greg Osuri: the attacker deleted. They hired the group. + +Robert Koschig: Oh s***. Okay. + +00:20:00 + +Greg Osuri: So we had recreate and we reached out to this card teams but they don't have capability to restore their account. + +Robert Koschig: Okay. + +Greg Osuri: So Unfortunately Jason, it brings to another point. I think we should as a community prioritized moving away from this card especially for For critical communications like validator communications work out. So I want to put a plan together eventually to To see how we can build a more sovereign, more open more, you know, a communications infrastructure akash can. You know. Rely on right? Like so, but That's that's challenging. We had You know, we did. Like matrix and whatnot before and they were not very performant. So, as much as we hated discord is the currently the only sort of like + +Greg Osuri: chat room. That we have. + +Robert Koschig: Okay, okay, thanks. Yeah. I mean that's that's unfortunate. But yeah, Github seems to be not know the place for for discussion switch which is a great place to to catch up. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, well we'll yeah, I think we'll have to get just a lot more. A lot better and memorializing links and things like that, right? So that these materials that ought to be persistent in nature. Do stick around because of discord's real time nature, right? It's a lot of these things, get pushed up, you can go back and use a service function, search function and look through chats and things like that, but it's still not ideal, right? So, I think I was a group. We need to just think about whenever things are shared that ought to be more permanent and honestly femoral should be ported over into, you know, get help discussions or something like that or dogs etc. So that we can better keep track of them and and keep them around. + +Greg Osuri: Who's to say Github on drug court? + +Cheng Wang: What we need is nitro. + +Greg Osuri: I don't know and all the centralized s*** is crap. I'm like a bit profit of like open source, decentralized. Things that you own and it can go away. But experiences support. So people will optimize convenience over. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. + +Greg Osuri: For control. That's what we have, unfortunately. As a community ourselves. + +Cheng Wang: We'll get there now. Yep. + +Scott Hewitson: Andrew, what's up? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, the last question, I remember just remembered I asked in the discord, didn't get the answer. So do we have like a revenue report from Q3 2022 because some people in telegram claims that Misari has like the revenue report for a cash in its paid version like So you're like Hey have to pay Missouri to get this and… + +Greg Osuri: yeah, you Web 3,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: they are claiming What? + +Greg Osuri: INDEX.ORG has the revenue numbers. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Okay, got it. + +Cheng Wang: I just shared a link Andrew so over there you can see everything. It's all on chain analysis. So that information is all there, the Web 3 Index here will give you the high level snapshot. This is what part of women sorry leverages as well. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: You got it, thanks. + +Cheng Wang: Yep, you got it. + +Scott Hewitson: Awesome. Alrighty. Well, I think with that, unless anyone has any last, any last questions or items they want to bring up? I think we can. Close this. Close this meeting. + +Scott Hewitson: All right. Oh Robert + +Robert Koschig: Stories over the last one. Hey yeah, maybe related to the data questions, you know, feel free to hit me up as well if you have questions because as I said, I'm researching various Infrastructure. Protocols obviously also take a lot into into Akash about Moses. Also great, great source. I actually just posted something in the In the Governance. It may high level comparison on the reward side. Yeah just more than FYI and obviously happy to Help with anything I can like on the analysis or data side. If you just, + +Greg Osuri: Yeah, that'd be great. Robert telegram. Could you drop in the chat? Please call. + +Robert Koschig: Yeah, I think it's just Robert Koschig or… + +Greg Osuri: Reach out to you. + +Robert Koschig: Coffee, Robot. I don't know. Let me check. + +Greg Osuri: Being on Instagram person. + +Scott Hewitson: That's this looks great and and Github posted four hours ago and… + +Greg Osuri: He does. + +Scott Hewitson: get a discussion. Of the definitely check that out. + +Greg Osuri: I'm just taking a look at it. Yeah. It's really cool. + +Robert Koschig: But yeah, it's at Robert's here. Yeah, again, have a happy to to continue digging digging more. This is Just the surface I guess or the starting point. Because I was like,… + +00:25:00 + +Scott Hewitson: This is great. + +Robert Koschig: really really great stuff that you guys are pushing up here. I mean that, I mean great, but also like quite quite an effort that you plan to do. So all the respect for you ambitions here. + +Scott Hewitson: I will. Well we appreciate you doing what you're doing too because you know it's community so people like you help help out a time as well. So it goes both ways. + +Scott Hewitson: but, all right, well with that, I'm gonna end the recording and the call and I'll have notes and have this all put up within 24 or 48 hours upon And everyone have a great. And I'll see you in a month. For this. +Greg Osuri: Thank you so much Scott. Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: Yep. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Thanks guys. + +Cheng Wang: Thanks everyone. Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: See that. + +Robert Del Rey: Say everybody. + +Meeting ended after 00:26:02